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 What rights do paying spectator have in sports

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 14:27 jrsussex wrote:
    Yesterday's F1 is another step in proving to the paying public just how bent all sports are becoming. The team orders telling Massa to let Alonso pass is little short of cheating the public. Surely the very object of getting into the car is to win the race, if not what is it? If Alonso wins the F1 championship we will all know that some of the points (those awarded yesterday) should not really have been his. Both drivers should be stripped of the points awarded.
    At the World Cup we saw a side blatantly hand ball what was a certain goal to stop it and yet that team went through to the next round. FIFA has taken no action against the offending team.
    Sport will, and is in fact already, kill itself because the spectators will simply lose faith in the controlling bodies.
    Snooker for me is an example, I rarely watch it anymore due directly to the many rumours of throwing the games by the players. There have been so many allegations that some of the mud does stick. In sport I want to watch those participants that play to win but maybe I am naive

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 14:50 Rookie wrote:
    More and more sport is being ruined by money. Money and corruption go hand in hand and are proportional to each other. Winning the F1 championship is probably worth millions to Ferrari in increased sales. Boxing, football, and more recently, snooker have been mired in stories of financial shenanigans for years. Other sports, such as cricket and athletics, are not without their problems either. I have no faith in these sports administrators either. Too many of them are more interested in feathering their own nest rather than sorting out the problems.




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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 15:15 Clifford wrote:
    Couldn't agree more with you Rookie and JR. I know it's impossible, but it would be nice to go back to a time when people did sport for the love of it and the spectators watched for the pleasure of seeing skilled players enjoy themselves.

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 16:10 Football fan wrote:
    To answer the original question, you have the right to go to sporting events or not to go.
    As soon as people start talking with their feet and keeping away from events, you'll then see a change in attitude from the clubs and promotors.

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 16:11 jrsussex wrote:
    Glad you agree. I think like Clifford, it would be nice to be able to turn the clock back but it will not happen. When I think of watching the 4 minute mile with, the so simple approach, being broken by Bannister, assisted unselfishly by Chataway and Brasher, and look at todays sportsman, who won't run in many events until their fees have been agreed it really is very sad.
    But much of the blame for these developments in sport are the fault of the various administrators who allow the cheating and poor practices to be carried out without meaningfull punishment. Rookie's point relating to money being the cause of much of the problem is correct, it will eventually bring about the ruination of many sports.

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 16:28 Down and Out wrote:
    Oh, stop with the hand wringing, people. These mythical Corinthian values only ever existed in amateur sport.
    F1 - Do you not remember both Senna and Schumacher taking opponents off the track to prevent them winning?

    "At the World Cup we saw a side blatantly hand ball what was a certain goal to stop it and yet that team went through to the next round. FIFA has taken no action against the offending team."
    The player was sent off, in accordance with the rules of the game. Do you think FIFA should have made up a new rule on the spot, to suit the occasion? What I don't ever want to see is a situation where it becomes possible to retrospectively change the result of a match.
    I started watching football in the 70s, when it was infinitely more dishonest than it is now - players deliberately setting out to cripple opponents, for example. Herbert Chapman was making illegal payments to players in 1916, yet he still went on to become a 'great' Arsenal manager. How honest was that?

    I don't see what Bannister has to do with anything - it wasn't even a proper competition as such; it was a staged attempt to break a record.

    Things were ever thus. Including the periodic whinging at the terrible dishonesty of it all.

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 16:57 Down and Out wrote:
    By the way, JRS: though you might argue that you were a "paying spectator" because you pay your licence fee, I assume you weren't either in Hockenheim or South Africa, so you weren't really "paying" in any direct sense.
    And if there is a problem with sport it's to do with too much cash paid for TV rights.

    So switch it off and stop being part of the problem! Go and watch The Rooks and F3 or saloon cars at Brands.

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 17:07 Rookie wrote:
    D&O. I don't think anyone is trying to make out things were perfect "back in the good old days". Cheating and gamesmanship has been going on in all sports since they were invented. I just think it is more prevalent now with the enormous financial rewards on offer. That's why I don't watch much of it anymore.
    I echo your sentiments about the Rooks. Not long to go now. Real football again after that World Cup sideshow.
    Cue Gooner.............

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 18:07 steve watts wrote:
    More transparency would help cure a lot of the problems, an excellent example being set by the new set up at the Rooks. First home friendly tomorrow night .

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 19:07 jrsussex wrote:
    D and O - Steady tiger you'll burst a blood vessel. Not a paying customer, you really shouldn't make assumptions.
    I was a season ticket holder at Highbury for 36 years, prior to that and from 1946, I paid each time I went to see a game. I have followed them all over the world whenever they played away from home. I have also followed boxing throughout the UK, Europe and America having attended many of the top fights over the last 40 years, (I used to be a boxer). I was the chairman of a football club in the equivalent of the old Southern League. I have paid to attend many athletic events in my lifetime having taking part in distance running events in my youth. Finally I sponsored, at considerable cost, a Formula Ford racing car in the 80's spending many happy days in the pits at Brand's.
    Paying customer with regard sport? I like to think I have been, however now in my "twilight yaers" I don't attend the amount of events that I used to but like to think I can still criticise if I want.
    As I say, never make assumptions.
    The truth is that yes there was examples of wrongdoing in in past years but the sport was generally operated in a better way. Now it has been totally spoilt, as others have stated, by money, mostly from the great God, BskyB.

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 20:37 Gooner wrote:
    Leave it out. Sky money and others has meant that we can see the very best players in the world every week playing in our country. It has made the premier league the best league in the world. Why watch non league dross in a pathetic ground when for a bit more you can watch world superstars in a fantastic stadium?

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 21:10 Jimmy wrote:
    Because non league isn't a predictable load of rubbish. They don't drive ferraris and live in a manor. But the standard of football is very similar. Apart from over paid pansies rolling around on the floor because they have a hair out of place. Non league is played by real men who enjoy playing football and most go to work on a Monday morning. shall I go on ?

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    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 22:45 Down and Out wrote:
    No bust blood vessels JRS; I just get a bit wound up by any argument along the lines of 'we've never had it so bad' when the evidence to back up the assertion really ain't there. But you did kick off by putting 'paying customers' in the particular context of two specific events you like as not hadn't actually paid for.
    I don't think it's realistic to make a connection between money and the Suarez handball; he was playing for his country and whether he cheated or not, money had nothing to do with it.
    Which is not to say that I don't disagree with the idea that money has made top flight football staggeringly dull. The fact that so few teams have finished in the top four of the Premiership since it started, and that so many teams are on the edge of financial collapse, tells me something is very wrong.

  • 0Dislike Like0
    On Mon 26 Jul 2010 at: 22:50 Down and Out wrote:
    Gooner old lad, you really haven't got a clue, have you? If the Prem is the 'best league in the world', why were 100% of the Prem players who turned up at the WC utterly rubbish? Arsenal players in particular were spectacularly bad: Gallas; Sagna; Bendtner were an embarrassment.
    Still, you keep at it if it makes you happy, eh?

  • 0Dislike Like0
    On Tue 27 Jul 2010 at: 11:14 jrsussex wrote:
    D and O - I agree the handball was not to do with money, it is the lack of action from such bodies as FIFA to ensure that type of offence is not rewarded by allowing the tean through to the next round. How would you have reacted had they have won the World Cup, personally I would never have consider they were worthy winners have cheated on the way to the final.
    The huge plus that money has brought to footgall is that we see, in the main, better football played for a variety of reasons, one for example is the condition of the playing surfaces and ground facilities. No more queuing at a tea bar ankle deep in mud as we used to.
    Finally fellow gooner. BskyB by paying ridiculous sums of money to ensure no other TV company can get to Premier Leagur football they have been responsible for the equally ridiculous level of salaries paid to footballers. It is that which I feel has robbed the game of something, Players becoming millionaires whilst still in their teens whilst those at the bottom of the football pyamid struggle to survive, Leswes being a prime example. Although I hear that they (Premier League) have given some money recentl;y to the lower leagues. Don't know if Lewes received any but I hear from a friend that Eastbourne Borough recived a few thousand.

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    On Tue 27 Jul 2010 at: 11:56 kevsy wrote:
    Like most others, broadly agree with the main thrust of the thread but not the world cup handball example. The rules were applied correctly and it would not have been appropriate to punish more than that. It is a point of debate as to whether stopping a goal with you hands should incur more of a punishment. Can't really see the difference between that and hacking down a centre forward as he bears down on goal. If that happens - the whole team doesn't get labled as cheats.

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    On Tue 27 Jul 2010 at: 12:42 'ere be monsters wrote:
    In rugby a referee can award a "penalty try" if in his opinion a try would have been scored if the attacking team had not been fouled against. That would have sorted the handball out if football referees had the same option. Marching a team back 10m for dissent would help too.
    There have always been cheats in sport, it is more noticeable now with the intense media coverage.

  • 0Dislike Like0
    On Tue 27 Jul 2010 at: 15:11 kevsy wrote:
    I still do not think he was cheating as opposed to those that dive who clearly are.
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